Posts by Captain Obvious

69

Atheism and the delusion of meaning

by Laika in

jw
friends

in the movie annie hall, written by woody allen, as a young boy, alvy's mother, takes him to see a doctor as he appears to be dealing with some kind of depression.

when the doctor asks alvy what's up, alvy explains that he just found out the universe is expanding, everything will spread out and go cold and die, therefore nothing he does matters, so he is not going to do anything anymore.

most people might see this as a joke, but i think woody is trying to make a serious point.. the point here is about meaning.

Captain Obvious

Laika you have your debate, just as you wished. The problem is your premise is flawed. I will not attack you or a straw man. I will attack your halfway thought out statements.

As has been mentioned here several times already, an Atheist's life has whatever meaning he or she makes it to have. If I want to spend my life collecting smurf dolls, I can do so. If I want to spend it feeding hungry people on the other side of the world, I can. Do you know why? It's because I've never even wondered if I can do something that can affect the universe. I don't care! Why should I? Can you, the believer do something that can have an effect on th universe? No. As I said before, even if there is a creator, what can you do for him? Listen to his chosen men who interpret his riddle book? Even if you could talk to god directly and everyday he had instructions for you. You followed those to a tee EVERY day of your life. You still haven't done anything to affect the universe. I don't know why you keep talking about that... Am I missing something?

I can add something to your flawed world view, it may help. A "good" Atheist's goals in life should and will likely be BETTERMENT. Be that betterment of himself, betterment of his family, betterment of humanity.. Whatever. He is not trying to please a sky daddy who won't return his calls, or waiting for him to solve man's problems.

You must agree that today, man's situation is better than ever. There's significantly less crime, less violence, less wars, we have ways to fight disease... The list goes on. While we to have new challenges to face, we are more prepared to take them on than ever. List today's great thinkers. The men and women who are working to cure diseases, help solve hunger, and making the decisions that will determine humanity's near and distant future. If you were to ask each person on that list about their beliefs, you WOULD find that the great majority of them are Atheists. That's not Satans work, that's being informed winning over ignorance. Hopefully every generation after this one is a little bit less religious, and more reasonable.

9

Blood, what is the spirit behind the law?

by CookieMonster in

during the years when i was an active jw i never questioned the ban on blood transfusion.

i have been inactive now for a number of years and even during those early years i reasoned i will never accept a blood transfusion.

however, thinking about it with an open mind, i question the current teaching of jw's on banning blood transfusion on any account even if it means saving a life.

Captain Obvious

However, thinking about it with an open mind, I question the current teaching of JW's on banning blood transfusion on any account even if it means saving a life.

There you go! Keep going with this reasoning. Use that open mind to figure out whether a worldwide flood actually happened 4600 years ago.

371

Design or Non-Design, finally we know, Darwin's Doubt

by QC in

jw
friends

if you want to read the definitive explanation on fossils and how life arrived its covered in darwins doubt, by s.c. meyer.

this is a game changer.

the bomb!.

Captain Obvious

QC:

Beliefs have nothing to do with facts. Do you believe in the gravitational theory? Why? Because that's where the facts lead. Just because you don't understand something, that doesn't mean it's true. Universe, POOF into existence? No. You know better than that. Even a god would have to do better than that. It started suddenly, yes. But a universe SPRANG into existence? It took a lot longer than that. Do you know how long 13.72 BILLION years is?

7

Prayer of Renunciation

by TOTH in

jw
friends

so, i have stated here that i am in the midst of what has so far been a fairly painless "fade".

i have over time decided that i am still a person of faith and am on the move in search of a good, christian, grace focused church to go to.

while discussing this with my cousin pete, (a lay minister with the assemblies of god church), he suggested that since i was involved with the wt that i should seriously consider offering up a prayer of renunciation.

Captain Obvious

Yep I agree. Why not research the bibles history? Why not study ancient mythology and notice the similarities? Why not look into the impossibility of a global flood and an all knowing omnipotent creator?

MUCH more fulfilling.

You'll probably just ignore most of us that are telling you this... But... Please. Look deeper. Use the same logic that led you out of the WT! Then you can let go of your fear of the boogeyman Satan and your feeling of need to please a being who by his very nature doesn't needed ANYTHING from you.

88

Former Long Time Elder: Why I am still in

by James Jackson in

jw
friends

a customer on my route with whom i have had some lively debates was his number 1 complaint is that "the witnesses have so many rules".

last month i agreed with on this issue.

he asked why the change, i told him that i have been doing some soul searching.

Captain Obvious

James,

What happens when he grows up to be the good little JW you raised, only to shun you for your difference in viewpoint? Why take that risk because you're not confident enough in your own sense of values? JWs have a sense of structure, yes, but it is on another level. Do you want your kid to be a grown adult who views non Dubs as bird food? Do you want him to be unable to plan his future because he believes the big A is coming "soon"?

IMHO the risk far outweighs the benefit. There are lots of ways to raise a child. Your personal set of values may not be the right fit for your kid! He will find his own. All you can do is guide him along the best you know how.

WHY risk him ending up a JW? You're in a unique position to help guide your family away from this cult, don't drive them in!

73

The Watchtower Writers need to answer this question "Atheism, not religion, is the real force behind the mass murders of history!"

by ÁrbolesdeArabia in

how come the watchtower will not side with christendom and address a topic like the following?

what if christendom had allowed islam to spread it's plunder into europe without a fight and great force?

i direct your attention to islam spreading not as a distraction, but to ask the question most atheist have asked me when we talk of this subject.

Captain Obvious

As mentioned above you need a causation, not just a correlation.

Who, according to Christians is the biggest mass murderer of all?

Wait for it... Wait for it...

thats right! YHVH.

It's hard to call him a 'god of love' when his very own book makes him out to be such a prick. Do you believe the bible is a true account of history? Then it follows that you believe all of the child rapings and genocides committed under the decree of YHVH himself actually happened. How can you make such a wild claim with all of that on your side?

My world view brings me closer to humanity as a whole, not just closer to people who share the same beliefs. The men you mentioned and the things they did seem SO horrid BECAUSE they did what they did during the 20th century. In bible times they would have just been another ruler. Not excusing what they did, but your point needs to be made in context. If you limit your examples to JUST the 20th century, you intentionally take the heat off of the atrocities that have been committed in the name of The Lord or whoever the person believed in.

Not only do you not have history on your side, you don't have facts. You hugely understate the numbers who have been killed in events like the inquisition. Face it, you CANNOT win this one.

19

Ideas to wake up the JW 'Feelers'

by Captain Obvious in

jw
friends

a great point was made by neverknew on another thread about certain doctrinal issues will cause a 'thinker' to wake up, but a 'feeler' will just shrug and carry on.

the feeler jw is often not stupid, but intellectually lazy.

they will often not bother to do research, whatever is said from the platform is fine.

Captain Obvious

Thanks for the replies.

I have read or listened to a few of Hassan's books. I never did finish the new one though.. I am willing to do anything to get her to wake up.

A big part is that she doesn't want to learn that it isn't The Truth. She's afraid of what it means for us. She knows I'm not stupid, she knows I wouldn't risk everything based on a hunch or a half cocked idea. I think that's what scares her. She still holds out the hope that one day I'll hear what I need to hear at a meeting and turn around. I am willing to do that, if that were to happen, but I'm confident it won't.

I've been playing the long game for a year and a half, with little progress. She still has the JW mindset that just BEING at the meetings will do good.

Both of our upbringings were good, all things considered. Neither of us have had any bad JW experiences except for my mum being DF'ed twice. She doesn't see the problem with just hanging around. Until last week she honestly thought I was going to continue going to the occasional meeting forever! That HURT to hear her say. She says I'm ridiculous when I say the meetings are torture.

She listens to what I say, most of it anyway. But NONE of it sinks in.

19

Ideas to wake up the JW 'Feelers'

by Captain Obvious in

jw
friends

a great point was made by neverknew on another thread about certain doctrinal issues will cause a 'thinker' to wake up, but a 'feeler' will just shrug and carry on.

the feeler jw is often not stupid, but intellectually lazy.

they will often not bother to do research, whatever is said from the platform is fine.

Captain Obvious

A great point was made by NeverKnew on another thread about certain doctrinal issues will cause a 'Thinker' to wake up, but a 'Feeler' will just shrug and carry on. The Feeler JW is often not stupid, but intellectually lazy. They will often not bother to do research, whatever is said from the platform is fine.

I am a thinker, my wife is a feeler. When I first woke up I showed her some doctrinal inconsistencies and she just shrugged and said, "So"?

What I am thinking so far as ways to reach a feeler;

- Child abuse scandals and payouts

- Quote mining, rewritten history and lies by the WTS in their pubs

- The WT's ignorant attitude towards women.

I have tried all of these with my lovely wife. Her response to the first is, "how do you know all this? I don't believe that." Unfortunately I am unable to show her references other than the boooring court docs because she won't want to look at any "apostate" sites.

To the second, she just gets mad.. Like.. MAD at me for even suggesting that they would lie. She won't even consider it, let alone look at and read the references.

To the third, she doesn't see it. It's just the way things are. I treat her as my equal, but she isn't the women's lib type and puts me in the lead anyway.

She finally is willing to imagine a possibility where I get DF'ed and our lives are actually affected by my waking up. She will still talk with me about it, but doesn't like to express herself so it's difficult to get her to explain her feelings on matters. She also gets her back up when talking about the GB. She doesn't care about doctrinal issues, she doesn't care about scandals. I'm near my wits end, but will not give up.

What I'm looking for is input on my situation, and also a list or discussion about ways to reach a Dub like my wife. She's the 'never really studied, can't quote scriptures, misses half the meetings and goes out in service once a month... But has been to meetings since birth and so is brainwashed without any real solid basis for her faith'... Type. One would think she would be an easy case, but she seems willing to overlook all this BS just to stay in touch with friends and family and maybe even survive the big A.

Tough nut to crack. To top it off I'm an atheist, and all she knows of evolution and natural history is from the bOrg books.

What has worked for some of you? We can't all be Thinkers.

28

Blood Ban Witch Hunt in Progress

by 5go in

i have had my own power of attorney drawn up and sent to my non jw family to void out my old card.

but now the society is pretty much forcing the issue on everyone with the emergency contact information (witchhunt) gathering drive every year and basically not taking a no for an answer fill it ot or get pulled in back.

well i am giving them the big fu this time i filling their card out but listng my non jw family on it as the contact and then filling yet another power of attornty to void out their stupid card again..

Captain Obvious

Same. Haven't updated our info since my wife and I got married. We have moved over 1000 miles away since.

28

Where are all the new members?

by Captain Obvious in

with the changes in doctrine being fully unveiled at the dc this year, i expected many to wake up.

the dcs have been going on for a month now, i fully expected to be welcoming new members by now!

am i just being impatient?

Captain Obvious

Well westiebilly, hopefully you can help those that you know to sort things out and see the truth. Personally it wasn't a certain changing doctrine that did it for me, it was events in my life combined with having the time and taking the chance to really look deeply into the Borg.

My OP was mostly asking if it is the DC program, or the WT study that will awaken more. I hope there are many reading this board right now lurking, thinking.

Come on, introduce yourselves! Your real life awaits.